(Quinsta) How do you breed for cream results?

[Kadana Sorano]

I have been trying to read online about how to go about this, but have wound up giving myself a headache and still remain confused/unclear.

I have read that cream is a dilution of other colors, not an actual color in and of itself.  This part I understand (or think I do anyway heh)

What I don;t understand is HOW to dilute the colors into cream.    The sites I have found to read about it at all use those little codes that I see people here using (AA, Aa etc) and much like math, my brain just seems to want to shut down when I see these.  I don;t think I will ever be able to fully understand genetics.

Anyway, what I want to know is.. if starting a breeding project, then what base colors should I begin with?  Assuming the base pair is first generation, never been bred, and we know nothing of their genes beyond the description given?

I'm considering bidding in Decembers Quinsta bribe thread, and trying to narrow down the list of what I want.  My first breed choice is Throughbred, since it is I think the only breed I have none of.  I would ideally like to try and get one male and one or two females, that I can breed to try and eventually arrive at cream.

I see a male and female sooty buckskin and those are very tempting, but 1. I dunno if they will help me in my goal and 2. I figure they will probably be pretty popular with other folks trying for them lol

Anyway, any advice is welcome, just please try and "dumb it down" as much as possible for me rofl

Oh and I am not too particular with markings either, if that helps any, and temperament doesn't matter in the least.

[toffeeca]

The most basic explanation I can give is that you need cream to get cream. Unless you are going to breed with offsite studs, you won't get cream if neither parents has cream. It works the same as with roan, tobiano, overo, appaloosa, or dun.

The sooty buckskins are a cream. Buckskin, palomino, smokey black, smokey cream, cremello, and perlino are all cream coats. The last three are double cream (both parents must pass the cream on) and the first three are single cream (only one cream gene and one non cream gene).

Of course the quin you choose don't have to have the cream genes. You can bred them with other quin that have cream and it is equally as likely to pass from either parent. If you have a double cream quin, it will guarantee that one cream gene will pass on (A chestnut quin and a cremello quin will always produce a palomino quin) and a single gene cream will have a 50/50 chance of passing on the cream gene (A chestnut and a palomino will produce 50% chestnuts and 50% palominos)

I think that covers the basics. If you have any other questions or anything that I have said doesn't make sense I can try and reexplain it better for you.

[Kadana Sorano]

*snugs* thanks toffeeca, that helps a lot!  That means I am good for my favs as an option to bid on, but I can pick some chestnuts and the palo girl as back up options.

For the chestnuts, should I go for flaxen chestnut, or just chestnut, or does flaxen not matter (hair gene only?)

[toffeeca]

Flaxen doesn't effect the cream at all. You can also get creams from bays, browns, and blacks. Bays and browns will be buckskin with a single gene or perlino with a double cream. Black will be smokey black with a single gene and smokey cream with a double cream.

I know my original examples were all for chestnut/palomino/cremello, but you don't have to breed within the same base group in order to get the cream. So a smokey cream will produce a cream baby if bred with a chestnut, there are just more options depending on what base colors the parents have, so its just easiest to explain with parents that have the same base color. If that makes sense. XD

If there is a certain cream that you want to get, it is easier to pick which parents will give you the best chance.

[Kadana Sorano]

hmm So a double cream (smokey or perlino) bred to a black would guarantee me a smokey black, and bred to a brown/bay guarantee's a buckskin?

If I grasped that right.. then it really does open my options, because chestnut is nice, but I have plenty of chesty quins lol  and I love black and brown, so I could go for those and the buckskins instead of the chestnuts

[toffeeca]

First, I forgot to mention one thing. There are two different types of buckskin. There is normal buckskin, which has a bay base, and then there is sooty buckskin, which has a brown base. Hopefully I didn't mess you up to much by leaving that out before.

Well a smokey cream bred to black would most likely be a smokey black (because black is the most recessive base coat, except chestnut, but chestnut is a little different)

There are three coats for a black based quin, bay, brown and black. If you have a bay quin, it has one gene of bay, and it either has a second bay, a brown, or a black for the second gene. If you have a brown quin, It has one brown gene, and it either has a second brown gene or a black gene. If you have a black quin, it has two black genes.

So if you have a bay quin and breed it to a black quin, you could potentially have a bay, a brown, or a black. So whatever base coat you get will determine what cream coat you get. But if you breed any double cream to a non cream, you will get a cream.

You are also able to get chestnut from a black based (black based are bay, brown, and black) quin. Black base is dominant over chestnut, so a quin can look bay, brown, or black, but produce a chestnut baby.
If you look at your Beautiful Dreamer she is black, but she has had a chestnut son Pelraido. So Pelraido's father gave him chestnut, but your Beautiful Dreamer had to have given Pelraido chestnut as well.

But cream is seperate from the base coat. The bast coat determines what kind of cream will show, but no matter what the base coat is, you can have a cream pass on from the parent.

So if you had a smokey cream and bred it to a black, it would most likely be a smokey black, but it could also be a palomino, if both parents carry and pass on chestnut genes.
If you bred the smokey cream to a brown, it could be a sooty buckskin(brown based buckskin) a smokey black, or a palomino.
If you bred the smokey cream to a bay, it could be a buckskin (bay based buckskin), a sooty buckskin, a smokey black, or a palomino.

[Sunchaser]

just so you know, if you are breeding gypsies or arabians i have some that are cream genes. You are more then welcome to use mine

[Kadana Sorano]

toffeeca, you are amazing.  Thank you, you have the patience of a (good) teacher lol  I only wish I could say I will remember all of that, but sadly I shall have to try and remember this thread is here instead lol  And you didn't mess me up, I did manage to get both the stallion and mare sooty buckskins I wanted, as well as a black mare.  So I'm happy.  And if sooty buckskins have a brown base, that makes me even happier (assuming it means I can breed brown out of them lol)


Sunny I luff you *snugs* thank you huni, thank you.  I'll keep that in mind if/when I get around to needing outside stock for those breeds.    Right now I wanna mess with my TB's


Oh!  is "mouse" a color or pattern or?  And is it always "mouse dun" or can you see it on non Dun's as well?

[YourLoveOnly]

Mouse dun is Brown base + Dun pattern It's just another name for brown dun, like black dun is often called blue dun. Yellow dun is bay dun and red dun is chestnut dun.

[Kadana Sorano]

ahah thanks YLO :)I was wondering cause I never see it except on dun's lol