Needing advice about Kennel/Stable contracts

[YourLoveOnly]

((warning: huge ranting post because this really really bugs me and I don't know how to solve it without feeling even worse, I could never reposses pets without feeling terrible and I also feel terrible when people keep breaking the one simple rule I have))

Okay, this is starting to really upset me. I have stayed away from the strict contract I used to handle because I wasn't that comfortable with it anymore and because people still seemed to be breaking it. I don't wanna have to force people to sign things, keep hunting them down and even repossesing dogs.

But lately it feels like I have to keep hunting people down and sending them messages to kindly remind them that they are breaking my rules. Really, I don't have that many strict rules anymore. I have some guidelines when it comes to breeding and using my prefix, but no requirements at the moment. The only rule I want people to obey is offer a pet back to me before trading/selling/rehoming. That isn't a crazy rule, is it? Still I have to keep PMing people about it. And not about pets that they've had for ages from back on PI etc, but often for one that they have for less than 3 months. I feel absolutely terrible everytime I have to tell people "you're breaking my contract, can we please find a way to solve this". It's a personal thing, I just can't handle having to be the bad guy I guess. I have received some pretty rude responses from different people. Or sometimes genuinely upset reponses because they felt like they hurt me. And then that upsets me.

I'm starting to get scared of rehoming pets. I don't people to break my rules and just let it slide. I also don't wanna offend or upset people. So, how do I solve this? How do other people handle it? Has it happened to you? Should I put my strict contract back in place with risk of scaring lotsa people off? And if people do break my rules should I try to get reposses the pet? The rule is offer it back to me first. But what if I happen to have nothing to offer in return, then I allow them to trade it anyway. But if they broke the rule and never told me about the possible trade and I was the one that had to contact them, should they really still have the right to just do whatever? And I would really like to know, if you have experience with someone breaking you contract, did you ever reposses a dog/horse?

I would feel absolutely terrible if I ever had to reposses a pet because someone broke my contract. But right now it seems like people are breaking my rules very frequently. I've send PMs to at least 5 different people lately. It's just not funny anymore. And if I do feel like it should be repossesed, would that even be possible? I never let people sign a contract on my website or something like that, I don't know how to set that up. And some agreements were made back on TheKennel forum, which I can't seem to access anymore, on PI. Most frequently people agreed to my rules by just posting in a thread or sending back a PM saying they agreed to it. But when I PM people they keep saying they totally forgot about it. How do I handle this? How do I stop this from happening frequently? And if it does keep happening, is there a way to get my dogs/horses back? I am not the kind of person to easily to do this, but there are a few people (yes, more than one. no, not saying who) who broke my rules more than once and I don't want it to happen again so I feel the need to ask about repossesing now.

Important note: this is not directed towards anyone. If you feel attacked by this, please don't. I know I am currently talking to 2 people about the issue posted above so please don't feel like this is meant towards you. I just want to try and avoid situations like this in the future because of the disorder I'm battling with, argueing with people makes it harder to handle. So this is really meant to find a solution for future problems, not current dealings and is mostly here for my own well-being.

Special thanks to Goddesss for actually remembering and sticking with my contract <3
Just felt like she deserved a special mention here. She got 2 Yorkies from me back on TheKennel forum or maybe even back on PI which she didn't want anymore. She PMed me to work something out and even traced back what the original trade had been so I didn't have to.

[toffeeca]

I would suggest posting a copy of your terms in the presentation of the dogs, then there is a reminder that someone would have to purposely delete. In that case you shouldn't feel so bad about PMing them, since they deleted the reminder that you put there for them. I'm not sure about the horses though. I hope you can work out something.

[YourLoveOnly]

The pedigree thing sounds like an excellent idea, thanks for that suggestion
And thank you for reading through my lengthy negative post. I try not to do that, but this has been building up for so long. I'm so scared to upset people, spend a very long time (often half an hour) to make a short PM sound as friendly as possibly and then people still get upset or angry. They break rules and I end up feeling like the bad guy. That's just not how it's supposed to be. It has really been affecting my moodswings (I have borderline personality disorder) so I need to find a way around it

[CutieePiee]

I'm pretty sure it is a matter of forgetting, since over time, people have signed many many contracts. You seemed to have forgotten yourself actually. You signed my contract way-back-when and agreed to our terms in the adoption of Snow, the male pom. I was never notified when he was traded to a new owner:

http://pjkennels.jimdo.com/kennel-rules/contract/

http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=3744

I'm sure you nor anyone else ever meant to sneak from under our noses, but it's just difficult to keep track of these things sometimes.

And I would like to commend Goddesss also. She came to me recently about permission to sell a dog under my kennel's contract. She's rather organized... or has quite good memory! ^^

[Kadana Sorano]

I've had exactly one person break an agreement with me regarding my dogs/breeding my dogs;  And she has received a temporary ban fro any/all interaction with my kennel.

I don't think I will ever say I will repo a dog.  For the simple fact I feel it is wrong.  But if agreements were made, and rules were broken, I can and will give a temporary or permanent ban form interaction with my kennel.

If it is bad enough that I really REALLY want the dog removed from the person, I MAY consider contacting the Kennel and see if they can mediate a satisfactory conclusion.  or, worse case, if they themselves will step in and take the animal and rehome it with a good owner.  But I don't feel that I personally have the right (or even ability, if you think about it) to take back a dog someone bought from me.

So, that's my view on it.  It's how I work.  If you agree to a certain set of conditions, and you break them, then you can expect a partial to full banning.  It could be temporary, or permanent, depends on what exactly the issue is.  And if it is permanent, then there will be a list made, and posted, on my kennel site with the banned persons name clearly visible.

So far, I haven't had to do that.  And I really really hope I never do have to.  but if push comes t shove, I will do it, no matter how bad it makes me feel.  because I'll feel worse if I don't, for letting people disrespect me, my kennel, and basically push me around.

If you want to send a polite reminder to someone, in case they simply forgot and weren't just willfully breaking faith, then they shouldn't make you feel bad for it.  You have every right to enforce whatever contract you had people agree to.

[Silvanon]

Personally for trades where I've been on the receiving end I've made note of where I got every dog I traded for, and if I ever did want to rehome them (or breed them, or do anything with them but look at them) I'd go look up that kennel's contract first.  

People who don't do that - well, they should be willing to accept a simple reminder, and if they get hostile or are unwilling to follow the contract after having been reminded, then I think they ought to receive bad feedback in their feedback thread, and repeated offenders should receive bad feedback period.

People know what they're agreeing to when they sign contracts.  I can understand and forgive someone forgetting once or twice, but in my view it's unacceptible to be unwilling to follow a contract you've agreed to once you do remember it, and it's unacceptible to fail to put in any effort to remember or check back on contracts you've signed - if you're not going to make any effort to remember or comply, you shouldn't be signing in the first place!

I'll add that the Kennel has previously stated publically that we will help people enforce contracts, and will certainly do so when proof can be provided that someone has broken a contract they signed.

[YourLoveOnly]

@Silv: Right now I am starting to have a situation where I feel it is neccessary to take action. I don't mind if people forgot rules (Cutiee, I'll be PMing you to apologize, I thought I had PMed you before rehoming him but apparently I didn't O.o), but I have someone who is still continuing to break my contract after being reminded of it. What if they haven't actually "signed" something? Basically I say "my only rule is offer the pet back before rehoming" and then the person says they agree to it. Would that be enough? I can't find the post/PM that says that anymore, but I do have PMs to prove that I've reminded that person of my rules, I have received replies so I know they have been read, but the pets are still up for trade and basically I am told it's my problem, not theirs. It's not the first time this has happened either and I feel really disrespected and just want my pets back.

@Kadana: my contract actually says dogs will be repossesed if people don't follow the rules. But I never actually did it. Because I understand people can forget stuff. But if the same person does it multiple times and is also being rude to me like what is happening right now I will take action. You are right, I actually feel worse about being disrespected and letting this person continue with breaking my rules then I would feel about trying to get the pets back.

--
For future transactions I will use toffeeca's idea of putting reminders in the presentation. I also like Kadana's idea of using a temporary ban if neccessary. I know of one other person who made genuine mistakes and was never rude to me, but did break rules on several occassions. I don't feel the need to take the pets back, but I do feel slightly uncomfortable about future transactions with this person.

I think I may also need to get people to sign a contract and email/PM it or make something to sign on a website. How do you do that anyway?

[CutieePiee]

No need, dear. I know you didn't mean to do that.  Heck, I bet I've forgotten a few details of certain contracts myself. I was just trying to prove that there are just so many contracts out there and it's so hard to keep track of. I like toffeeca's idea of posting contract terms in the presentation. It's a good reminder of what your terms are.

[WillowDragon]

I've had exactly one person break an agreement with me regarding my dogs/breeding my dogs;  And she has received a temporary ban fro any/all interaction with my kennel.

I don't think I will ever say I will repo a dog.  For the simple fact I feel it is wrong.  But if agreements were made, and rules were broken, I can and will give a temporary or permanent ban form interaction with my kennel.

If it is bad enough that I really REALLY want the dog removed from the person, I MAY consider contacting the Kennel and see if they can mediate a satisfactory conclusion.  or, worse case, if they themselves will step in and take the animal and rehome it with a good owner.  But I don't feel that I personally have the right (or even ability, if you think about it) to take back a dog someone bought from me.

I agree with this.

[indigowulf]

Is there any way we could, for example, expand our feedback forum to include a contract area, where people could also sign when they get a puppy? It would get past a lot of hassle of "I dont know how to set up a place to sign on my own website" or "I dont know who I got it from or where thier contract is located" or even the "nuh uh, I never agreed to that!"

[BabyKittenCandy]

Well, I do actually have a *very* strict contract because im very odd about my adopts. I always post when i offer pups that people please do not offer on them unless they have read over my kennel contract and are happy to abide by it. I then email it to them, have them fill out the relavent info and mail it back to me so I can keep a copy. There are 1 or 2 contracts im missing and I know who they are. If the person is signing that contract, im assuming they have read it and I would therefore send them a reminder for the first offence, a warning for the second and then ask the kennel to help me repo if it was needed.

But.. thats just me, as I said, i am really wierd with things like this.

[Ryuukokoro]

For future transactions I will use toffeeca's idea of putting reminders in the presentation.

I have a terrible TERRIBLE memory. I forget the names of people at work after I've worked with them for weeks. XD So for the people who are just forgetting, yes, I believe this would be the most helpful. Because then every time they look at the dog, they will be reminded that particular dog is part of that contract.

For someone to blatantly tell you it's "your problem" and continue to trade the dog, that's just rude and disrespectful. :\ Maybe you should privately contact the Kennel staff about that.

[indigowulf]

Theres a new section of the record hall for contracts and signing. Anything from now on can be "in writing" on secundi for all to see, so there will be no "I forgot where your website with contract was" or "Nuh uh, I never signed that!"

If anyone wishes me to, Ill sign contracts for any dog I already own here on Secundi, even if I signed elsewhere or even if there wasnt a contract when I got the dog. As long as it's not insane terms that should have been mentioned when I got it (like, you can never ever breed it, or something crazy) Just let me know if you want me to sign here!

[springacres]

I personally have decided to start keeping records for each of my dogs, on my kennel's website, that tells me where that particular dog came from and what, if anything, I traded for it, just so I remember who gets first dibs if I decide for whatever reason that I no longer want the dog.

[Silvanon]

YLO - please PM all details to the TheKennel account.  Thanks!

[YourLoveOnly]

This involves stable horses, not kennel dogs.
So I dunno if I need to talk to Ravv or to Secundi staff or both?

[zarzamora]

I have a shocking memory- but to be honest I dont often sell on a dog I worked hard to get! I remember which dogs have contracts on them generally though, I know my two poms dolce gabbana do- though i dont remember who i got them off! I really like BKC's contract as its one i had to download and so i actually now have a folder in my kennel documents that says 'contracts' and i've named the files witht he dogs name, so if I ever need to check anything I know its there.

Personally I'm not that bothered- When I decide to sell something I realise I am giving up the rights to it- years of selling on outgrown ponies in real life I suppose (and asking people to keep in touch and let me know if you ever sell them on etc- and them never bothering) . But I do have a little contract that asks people not to sell on within 2 months and not to overbreed etc. I respect other peoples attatchments though, and stick to their contracts, and am quite happy to sign them as I'm not the kind of person who goes through adoptables at a rapid pace- I'm a bit of a hauder!

YLO- I think the note in the pet description box if a fab idea- I generally try to note down in that where I got the dog from for my own records. I think a sales history might be a nice touch on their pages too.

[Silvanon]

Ah, in that case you'll want to talk to Ravvana first.

[YourLoveOnly]

Will do right now.

[Ravvana]

PM me and I'll see what I can do