Question on Quinsta

[Sunchaser]

has anyone bred a grey/white with a buckskin horse? I had this idea they might bring pretties but i want to know if anyone has bred one yet or what.

I.e I would like to use Kahliras grey mare with Sunchaser my buckskin arabain ^_^ or at least see what could happen

[Keilin Alyr]

I'm pretty sure gray would mask the cream if both were inherited, as cream just modifies the base coloration without adding any sort of patterning. Gray and white are a bit like chestnut, just a bit more extreme: they mask whatever base coloration lies underneath, though white will even mask patterns. Nothing shows up on a truly white horse.

Pattern traits like tobiano and overo have been confirmed to work alongside gray, I have hope that fleabitten will someday appear, and I imagine appaloosa, dun, and roan would also show up if inherited on a gray Quin. I have my doubts about cream though.

[Sunchaser]

mmm food for thought *snugs* thank you Keilin

[Keilin Alyr]

It's no problem, and I imagine it could be a fun experiment if others are curious, though I'd personally pair him with a mare with traits that combine more reliably with cream, like dun or overo. =)

Goodness knows I won't argue with more Sunchaser foals, though I'm a little torn, I'm also hoping he doesn't become as omnipresent in Arabs as poor Grace and Angel have for Vanners. I guess at least the Arabs have Zaithin and Jonquil to keep the cream spread evenly. XD

[Sunchaser]

lol yeah its kinda sad but makes me feel special to. i think there should be a like reward for most grand foals and what not :-p

[Keilin Alyr]

Heh, that could be fun. I imagine Astris and especially Lete'mionech may give Grace a run for her money though; it could be interesting to tally some records and see how many Quinsta can trace their lines to one (or more!) of those three. I know I own at least two myself.

Owning Jonquil now, I'm beginning to realize how you felt about wanting to keep your cream pretties all to yourself. Once I have a cremello foal from her, and once she kick-starts my super-secret Grade project... I don't know what to do. I don't want to be picky and demanding like I know I can be, I don't want to be super-crazy-restrictive on who gets her foals, but I don't want to see every Arabian cream with her in their line, though I know even one popular son can cause a breeding explosion. It's weird trying to balance. Then again, maybe I shouldn't worry so much. =)

Actually, I want to hold on to her and start imitating Gollum. "My preciousss..." XD

[Sunchaser]

lol yeah thats what i wanted to do with all of mine. What i might do is breed grace till i get a pretty pretty mare keyword is mare :-p and try and keep that line small. We shall see though >.>

[red_uni387]

*feels special cause Mionech was mentioned* XD

so grey roan is possible? cause if it is totally trying for that next season >>

[Keilin Alyr]

Uni: I was trying for gray roan this season. Granted, I didn't succeed, but I remain curious. I'm still not quite sure dun and roan will show up on a gray base, but it would be awesome if someone proves it can... and if anyone can get Lete'mionech's roan genes to cooperate, it's you. XD

Sunchaser: I've been pondering with both Persephone and Jonquil to only claim or offer for trade foals that show cream, at least when I personally breed them. I'm not sure that will help or hinder them in the long run, but it gives me a baseline to work with, which I like. Maybe your new Grace daughter could work with something similar?

Also, if Grace is ever unclaimed for a season and you'd like to borrow Persephone, just let me know! I have a ton of Vanner projects that would love a buckskin foundation. =)

[Sunchaser]

lol ill have to think on that Keilin i think it would be fun to use persephone. This coming season she is already claimed for in trade for a foal that really called my name lol

[Keilin Alyr]

Yup, I saw, and I totally understand. I never met a silver dapple black (or blue) Quin I didn't like; in fact, I even traded for the foundation for a silver dapple black roan Friesian project. I can't wait to see that one come to fruition. They're going to be so, so pretty. =D

[Ravvana]

Uni: I was trying for gray roan this season. Granted, I didn't succeed, but I remain curious. I'm still not quite sure dun and roan will show up on a gray base, but it would be awesome if someone proves it can... and if anyone can get Lete'mionech's roan genes to cooperate, it's you. XD

At least in TheStable, dun and roan show on grey. Cream gets masked by the grey. Everything gets masked by white - including grey

[toffeeca]

I don't think dun will show on grey, I was looking through the foals that my quin produced this season to update their genes and I found this foal.

612. Pinkshadow - 223 x  231 - Arabian F Red Dun Sabino Overo, front right Coronet, front left Fetlock, back right Fetlock, back left Sock, Irregular Blaze (Calm and sweet, not a mover)

This is the mother

F Grey, front right Coronet, back right Pastern, back left Sock, Irregular Blaze (Calm and steady)

and this is the father

M Chestnut Sabino Overo, front right Coronet, front left Coronet, back right Fetlock, back left Fetlock, Stripe (Sweet and generally willing, but occasionally excitable, a mover)

If the father had dun it would show, so it must be from the mother, but she doesn't show it, so I'm guessing that grey masks everything except paints/appy.

[YourLoveOnly]

Yep you are right toffeeca, that means Silv did it differently. Would have been nice to know sooner, as I was also plotting breedings around that thinking it followed the Stable genetics fully, but at least I know now.

[Ryuukokoro]

I had always assumed gray and white were complete masking genes, and a gray or white horse would not show anything else (with the exception of the paint of course, since there are tobiano grays out there).

Dun and roan are both modifiers to the original coat, which is why they look different with black/chestnut/etc. That is different from paint, which seems to "cover" the coat, so to speak. Gray and white also "cover" the coat so I wouldn't assume you could see dun or roan on it. But that's just what makes sense to me, lol.

But we can get gray dun and gray roan for Stable, eh? Interesting... wonder if there are any out there....

[YourLoveOnly]

There are, I've seen them, which is why I thought Quinsta worked the same xD
I am pretty sure indigo owns one, don't know anyone else right now, but I know I've seen them.

[Ryuukokoro]

*pokes around on google*

I only looked briefly, but the only 'gray roan' horse I could find in real life clearly looks like a bay roan to me, so I dunno why they're calling it gray roan in the description lol.

Found a few more responses typing in 'gray dun' (also got 'silver dun' as a response) but most don't seem to me to look like gray duns at all. And on one forum I saw a person had claimed a gray dun and a responder found a picture of the same horse as a foal and pointed out it was a yellow dun horse who had 'grayed out' as he got older.
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/grey-dun-69130-2.html <-- interesting to hear them talk about horse genetics! lol. I even follow a bit of it!

But I only looked briefly lol. (Ryuu is supposed to be correcting quizes at work! >.>) Whether they exist for 'real' in the horse world or not, it doesn't seem to be very common. ^_^

[Lectral]

In real life, if a horse gets the grey gene, the horse will grey out.  Period.  Depending on the base color, it may affect how the horse looks as it ages and greys out, but grey does very odd things as it ages.  The horse may be chestnut genetically, but could look black before the greying becomes very obvious, and vice-versa; or even more random looks.

Now on very pale horse, double creams, etc, the greying process may not even be noticeable, since the base would have been so light to start with.

Grey over roan will still eventually grey out, though I would imagine might have some very interesting looks before it finishes.

Searching for gray dun, or even silver dun, will get random results, due to people not using the correct terms.  Since grullos often look grey or silver, other than their points, those are what will usually pop up for a "grey/gray or silver dun" search.  When, technically, silver dun should be a dun+silver horse, but that doesn't seem to be overly common, in real life XD

Ha!  Forgot the initial reason I was going to post!  I bred Bikrah, my grey mare to Sunchaser, so we'll see if he has the cream gene under the grey, later XD

[Sunchaser]

ooo awsome!


And thanks for all the information guys its actually helped a little bit

[Winged]

I had no idea about wheather that would pass or not, but seeing the answers they actually make sense to me I'm happy that i'm finally beginning to understand genetics!