The Untamed – To dog or not to dog? - Poll added- Update more previews-

[Mutt]

I guess the title already gave this away, but since The Kennel went inactive I've been missing larger sized dog adoptables on Secundi, the small ones like mini kennel and the dogs from FCFC are super cute but I've been thinking of adding large dogs as an off-shoot of The Untamed for some time now and perhaps list them as a separate species in The Untamed Agency.

Nothing written here is set in stone, I'd like to have the opinion of Secundi users before implementing something big like to The Untamed so please let me know if you like one thing or dislike another or if you have any suggestions or anything in the sort I'd really appreciate your input

Dogs would -
Be able to crossbreed with various sizes of mutts, large and small with all kinds of coat types, tail types and ear types.
Be able to crossbreed with Untamed wolves and if coyotes, dingos and jackals were added those as well, these would result in Wolfdogs, Coydogs ect which would also vary in appearance.
Mutts and Wolfdogs would have a few different poses, at least one per size, small, medium and large and each size would have a whole bunch of the aforementioned variants, different coat lengths, tail types, ear types, body types (slender bodies for sighthound crosses, stocky bodies for mastiff crosses ect).

Other things I've been thinking about,

Genetics – I know a little about coat colour genetics and would be willing to learn them a little better in order for the dogs to be bred with more realistic outcomes. Genetics affecting the coat length, tail, ears ect I don't know so much about so unless I find a website with this information or someone more knowledgeable can lend a hand breeding mutts from say a shorthaired dog and a longhaired dog would result in my notes on the pups coat length being something like 'Short hair, carries long hair'.
Hybrid to pure – What do you guys think on hybrid to pure breedings? I've no idea whether to say a mutt is always a mutt or whether after several generations of mutt to purebred to give a chance of pups being born listed as purebreds.

New designer dog breed registration – This might be tricky (and would require me to go through with the genetic strings)  but could also be a lot of fun, this would allow users to create their own designer dog breeds. To do this a user would have to crossbreed two or more breeds, so let's use an Old English Sheepdog and an English Mastiff for this example, if you wanted to create a designer dog breed you would have to decide on a breed standard (say you want the puppies to be large and  stocky like the English Mastiff and have a scruffy coat, with the Old English Sheepdog colouration) and once you have dogs that fit your standard and when bred together consistently produce puppies to this standard (no throwbacks to the original foundation dogs, so no brindles, no short coats, no bob tails ect) you could register them as a Designer dog breed. This may have to be limited depending on popularity, any suggestions on this would be most welcome.

Colouration – Considering only allowing accepted colours for each breed to start with and having custom items that would allow for out of breed colouration unless people would rather it be handled like with Quinsta where out of breed colourations would have to be bred in from breeding mutt to pure.

Agility Trials - I'd also like to introduce a sort of trial system with them, (which I'd have to work out how to run I'm not really a coder but I'm sure I could work something out) Agility trials specifically, which would allow dogs to earn titles in agility, which would add bonus points that can be passed on to their offspring and so give them an advantage in trials and perhaps other benefits. This trial system could also be made available to The Untamed under another name.
Trials could also give out points which could be redeemed for prizes of sorts, perhaps things like an item that would allow users an extra breeding for the upcoming breeding season.

Other domestic animals - There would be the possibility of adding domestic animals of other species, ie cats, horses. I've been thinking of adding Brumbies to The Untamed and these would be able to interbreed with the domestic horses when and if they were added.

Examples:

Kangal dog/Anatolian Shepherd (would have new shading and a number of adjustments such as changing the legs and paws a little) -  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/KangaldogFB2_zps8d96bcb6.png

Catahoula –  unfinished sketch needs a lot of fixing up -  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/CataSketchunfinished_zps835c122e.png

One variant of mutt, this one was originally drawn as a mix of Scottish Deerhound, German Shorthaired Pointer and Welsh Hound -  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/MuttResize_zps543f61f4.png

EDIT: More sketches most still need a lot of work some more than others but basic poses are there in any case,

Samoyed -  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/SammyPreview_zps3df74dab.png

Borzoi - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/BorzoiS2_zps984f7a58.png

Shiba Inus - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/Shibaspreview_zps9f3c892c.png

German Shepherd - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/GermanShepherdPreview_zps564fd394.png

Collie - this is what happens when I try to reference rough collie fur mid jump from old flyball photos, yikes, I think I'll have to simplify it -  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/Collie_zpsf84f454b.png

[SkySong]

Wow looks like you put a lot of work into this! (For a second I thought this had something to do with your dog and she turned out to be seriously ill or something. Gave me quite the scare!)

I like where you're going with this, I think the designer dog thing appeals to me the most, but I also think it'd be the most difficult to pull off. I think that any of these would be a big project (mainly because they mean more lines drawn) and I guess my main worry is that it would get started but never finished. Not that I doubt your capabilities to finish, but more of how the longer something is the less likely it's going to be finished. I also would personally rather you update the current lines before starting something else. (Not trying to offend you at all! <3 Just what I'd like to see happen first)

[Mutt]

Sorry about giving you a fright XD My dog is on the mend, looks like it was just a bug making her ill and not a blockage and I'd never make a light hearted subject line if she were ill lol.

That is a concern I was expecting and a completely valid one, I find it easier to draw new linearts than I do touching up old ones hence why I wanted to redraw the old Untamed but not everyone wanted redraws of all species though they all do need some work done and I'm hoping to get those done soon, I've got considerably more time and energy than I used to so those should be done soon, especially if I can fix up my desk to make it easier to use my graphics tablet without bashing my arm on things, tonight I'll attempt to line the new Wolverine female and see how things go

[Kahlira]

Looks like fun! But also a lot of work for you. Please don't become bogged down with this. ((Or maybe it's not a lot of work, just my brain can't comprehend it all.)) But that's ok too =D Pretty x pretty will always be pretty. Unless it's a merle, which could be bad. But I don't think I'd be able to do that stuff.

[Bunraku]

I really love the designer dog breed idea, but I have to say I'm against the idea of making the coat colors depend on real genetics. No offense of course, I see you have put a lot of thought into this and want to make your adoptable more interactive and give people something to strive for, which I feel can be fun with breeding designer dogs. But I have to say I don't want to see you restricted to coloring based on genetics. I've always loved the interesting and origional markings and variations that come with the untamed pups and I find a genetics system just restricts the imagination you put into these. I know what you are coloring dose have a basis in real genetics, which is wonderful, but I just don't want to see you limit yourself.

[Wildfilly94]

I hate to be the only one saying this, and I dont want to.be mean or hurtful since I see you put sooo much thought into.it (and its your adoptie so my opinion isnt the last stand)
But I really disagree with this. I loved the Untamed because theyre different. Theyre wild animals, which we dont have here otherwise. Adding all these dogs and ideas for them just throws away the whole.idea of wild animal theme. I like the idea, just not as a part of This adoptable. Mabye a new seperate adoptie, bit not for the untamed.

HOWEVER, I wouldnt be opposed to new wild cats, a wild dog or mabye even a brimbie or mustang, since those peetain to.wild animals. But anything domestisized at all I really dont like the idea of for this particular adoptie, as I said.before, because its such a unique adoptable with 'untamed' wild animals.  I would be really disappoimted to see that uniquness go away for this new odea.

And like I said, you.put somuch thought into this, so mabye create this as its OWN unique thing, I just dont think it should be part of the untamed.

[Mutt]

Kahlira - It's a bit of work but if I stick my head down I can get through it, I find drawing canines both easy and fun my sketchbooks are full of them XD

Bunraku - Thanks for your input, I'm not certain about using actual genetics because there wouldn't be as much variety in litters and it would certainly be easier for me not to implement it but I'd like to see what people think about it

Wildfilly94 - That is true, originally this was going to be a poll with having them perhaps as a separate adoptable would have been an option maybe I should add that poll that way we can have the dogs and keep what everyone likes about The Untamed.

New wild animals certainly will be added, I'm not certain which will be next I think Arctic Fox got all the votes on the last poll but seeing as we already have a number of canines I was thinking of adding something a little different, so perhaps a feline or equine maybe even one of the wild a... err one of the wild donkeys not sure I can use the technical term without Secundi filtering it out.

Thanks for your opinion on the topic, I'm going to see if I can add in a poll for exactly that

Edit: There we go, there's a poll there now

[Winged]

I really like the idea of these dogs, but not as part of The Untamed. I agree with Wild that i think there shouldn't be domesticated or semi-domesticated animals in The Untamed. I do like the idea of new wild animals in The Untamed! Equine would be really cool, i think something like a kudu or some other antelope would really suit.

I'm not sure on genetics, in a way i like that idea, but i also agree with Bun about them, and wouldn't want you to make running them too hard.
On the other hald, i love the idea for designer dogs, and think it would be cool for new dogs to only have allowed colourations, and either be bred in or i like the custom item idea.

Those examples look cool For the Kangal dog, i think the head is great, but the dog seems to sort of shrink as you go down the picture, and the legs and bum are too small i think. But you did say you would be altering it. The mut sketch looks really good
For breeds... I really hope you have German Shepherds and/or collies, my favourite breeds If you need any other breed suggestions come to me

[YourLoveOnly]

I would also like to keep the Untamed as non-domesticated animals only, but for a seperate adoptable it'd be a lovely idea! For Untamed additions.. Something from the Mustelid family, pleaaaase? There are so many lovely animals in there!

[Wildfilly94]

I do love the sketches, they look wonderful! I agree with Winged, there needs to be german shepherds so I ca hoard. XDD

I'm glad I'm not alone in my thoughts, and I think the poll is a great idea to see where the dog idea stands. ^^

[Mutt]

Thanks for all the feedback guys I really appreciate it.

Winged- Yep you're right about the Kangal, what happened there was I sketched it and started drawing the lines late at night so the further down the dog I got the more tired I became so I lost patience hence why it needs work XD

YLO - I'm starting to feel the same it might well be best to have them as their own separate adoptable. Ooh yes I'd love to draw a few Mustelids... maybe more than a few... I just can't decide between Weasels, Badgers and Otters they're all so cute XD

German Shepherds would definitely be on the list of the first dogs I would introduce as well as the Collie (hoping to have rough and smooth collies), others I have not sketched yet but would be next in line would likely be: Borzoi, Australian Shepherd (bob tail, half tail and full tail variations), Husky or Malamute, Shiba Inu, Australian Cattle Dog and Corgi (haven't decided which corgi yet). I'd like to have a lot of breeds available but I won't be pumping them out too fast as I'll be working on The Untamed at the same time and The Untamed needs new species.

[Winged]

That sounds great for breeds! As far as rough and smooth collies go, they are pretty similar so maybe have rough and border collies? Either way sounds good
I'd vote for otters for the untamed mustelid species!

[YourLoveOnly]

I love weasels, badgers and otters so I am not the biggest help.. XD I'd love to see them all The weasel is the one with the most variation in colors/markings because it has a big variety of subspecies so I'd probably like to see that one done first ^^

[Mutt]

So I haven't had access to a scanner for quite some time, finally got to borrow one this morning so I can get to work on more than just sketches, I've edited in a few more examples of more breeds in the first post. Also for The Untamed I've been sketching otters and weasels, otters are currently being worked on as I'm happiest with their sketches which is what my personal text should say now, I'm going to try and keep my personal text updated with what I'm working on for anyone curious.

Voting is currently tied, I'm leaning a little more towards separate adoptable myself now but I'm still undecided theres no rush really I want to have a few breeds complete before starting up.

[Winged]

Yay new sketches! Are you looking for comments, or is it easier to just work away on them yourself? Don't want to sound all critical xD

[YourLoveOnly]

I'm excited to see Otter and Weasel sketches! And I still very very strongly prefer that the lovely new doggies become a seperate adoptable, I really love how the Untamed are something very unique (wild untamed animals) and would really love to keep that intact <3

[Kadana Sorano]

I confess I did vote to combine them.  It just seems.. better to me is all, especially if you plan to allow cross breeding between untamed wild things and the domestic breed dogs etc.  And anyway, just because you have a german shepherd dog breed, doesn't mean it HAS to be a tame one, plenty of wild dog packs still running around places.

Well, that was my reasoning anyway!

And.. I cannot wait to see how the otters turn out.  Super excited for them!

[YourLoveOnly]

I think, if I understood correctly, that if they become a seperate adoptable the domestic dog breeds can only crossbreed with the other domestic dog breeds within the adoptable, not with the Untamed as well. Because I agree, it would make no sense to have 2 seperate adoptables if they interact and interbreed xD

[Kadana Sorano]

That would make a lot more sense wouldn't it? lol  So that may have just been a misunderstanding on my part.  But I still vote for having them as part of the untamed, partially because as I said, domestic "pets" can and do run wild singly and in packs, and also well, I was kind of anticipating cross breeding domestic breed types with the wild breed types. 

[Mutt]

If they were to be separate adopatables if the dog adoptable became an agency I don't know if Secundi would allow cross breeding, if it did wolfdogs would be uploaded with the dogs though not to The Untamed's agency in such a case. I'm starting to have second thoughts on the wolf dogs I must admit, I'll have a good think on it today weigh the options up some more.


Winged- Well they're unfinished sketches, I refine them after I scan them in photoshop so although the basic poses are there the end results will look very different.

[Winged]

I know i for one probably wouldn't be interested in interbreeding between dogs and wolves, unless the wolfdog lines were so adorable that i couldn't resist.
I still much prefer the idea of the untamed not having domestic animals, in response to Kadana's idea i know you get wild dog packs but they are very, very unusual here and usually killed or taken into dog homes. But your decision in the end Mutt, and i'd still like the adoptable either way

[Wildfilly94]

I agree with Winged.

[Mutt]

I'm still leaning towards separate adoptable but its still a way off yet, real life issues have taken away most of my free time but here's a little preview yet again that I've been working on this is only 50% of the original size XD Not sure how much I'll resize it later, I'll likely decide on actual size once I've also completed some larger breeds.

[TheLeet]

Beautiful!

[Winged]

Looks lovely!

[Rosewood]

*pets pretty dog* I want one. :3

[Mutt]

Preview of another Shiba. One of the Samoyed linearts is also nearly done, things are still really hard at home right now seeing as I may have to find somewhere else to live soon... and renting with a dog is hard, especially when said dog weighs half as much as you do, so many places I've looked at say pets allowed and then when I look further have added 'small dogs only'  So progress with the linearts is slow but it is happening.

I hope that in showing another preview I might get a little more motivation to power on XD


Some good news, I think I'll be able to work with genetics, at least for coat colours so all dogs can have a little genetic string that I'll keep hidden to myself XD If I do this however I was wondering whether you guys thought I should allow people making customs to choose what their custom dog carries or doesn't carry? Even if there was a limit on how many things could be specified so I don't end up with every custom carrying every single marking in existence or should it be entirely up to chance what a custom dog carries? Let me know, your opinions as always mean a lot to me

[SkySong]

Hm, I think it would be nice to do 'custom' dogs. But, I think it should be more like the user picks the markings/colors (Perhaps only things that have already been introduced?) and the string is based off that. (For dominant markings, it'd be chance if they are homo or hetero pairs.) Not sure if that idea works for you or not?

[Mutt]

Yeah I'm thinking they'll only be able to show/carry markings already in that breed, whether they had always been available for that breed or had been bred into it through repeated mutt to pure breedings. Maybe I'll leave out the being able to choose a few carried traits and I'll leave it a surprise XD

Update on the Shiba Inus, here it is with more detailed shading might still work on the shading to make it more similar to the other Shiba,


It may also be time to think about names for the adoptable if it's to be separate to The Untamed.
I was thinking maybe Secundi/an Kennel Club/Council might work, then when someone creates a new breed it could be registered with the SKC and the first litter uploaded as 'golden shitzuoodles' for example rather than 'medium mutts'.

I'll also make a poll soon of other breeds people want to see first off, so far the Shiba Inu will be ready and Samoyeds are in the works. I was thinking GSD should be among the first few breeds to be released too and most likely either Australian Shepherds or Border Collies but I'm not certain which other breeds should be ready before I launch the adoptable. I want 5 breeds at least to be ready before I start up.

[Kadana Sorano]

They look good Mutt!  I have no opinion on custom genes lol

As for starting breeds.. *slips a tape recorder under your bed set to loop a whispered "Rottweilers" over and over all night whilst you sleep*

*whistles innocently*

[SkySong]

Rotties would be cool. Most of the breeds you've listed so far are generally long-haired, and so it might be nice to have something a little different.

[CrystalAngelNeko]

I would die to see some American pitbulls ♥ that or Grayhounds, or maybe even Pointers -nods- but for sure a pitbull~

[Wildfilly94]

American Pit Bulls, Labrador Retreivers, German Shephards, and Huskys. :333

[Rosewood]

I like GSDs, Collies, Rotties, Pit bulls, Great Danes, Dobermans, Pointers...... actually, I like all dog breeds, but, these are ones that I would like to maybe see first. :3

[Riverwind]

Australian Shepherds, Pit Bulls, Malas

Mostly all dogs but those are my three favorite. ^_^

[Mutt]

Rottweilers have been sketched. There are also a couple of very basic sketches for either huskies and/or malamutes I think they're 2 that are more malamute and one that's just a pose sketch was intended to be a husky. This is no guarantee these breeds will be among the first released but it is something.

Would like to work on GSDs next, I'll try to get a new sketch done tomorrow. Love these breed suggestions keep them coming guys :3
I'd like to get at least one sighthound into the first few breeds for sure, can't decide which to start with though I love them all XD ... Borzoi are my favourite but Greyhound, Saluki and Ibizan Hound are all breeds I'd really like to introduce early on too but for the sake of variety I have to work a few different breed groups.

[Winged]

GSDs, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Scottish Deerhound, Irish Wolfhound, Newfoundland, Elkhound... They would all be great For a sighthound my suggestion would be Ibizan Hound.

[SkySong]

Oooh, I'd love to see Borzois! Schnauzers would be awesome, and I'm fond of Old English bull dogs as far as that sort of build goes.

[Mutt]

As anyone whose been following The Untamed's latest threads would know my life has sort of taken a turn for the worst and I've been very stressed the last few months, I'm so sorry that I've neglected The Untamed and the upcoming dogs I've so often felt bad about it but either had not the time nor energy to do much about it rest assured they are not forgotten, I've finally got a little time on my hands to work on these again and The Untamed too of course. I'm still busy with my new dog, my foster failure Max (I'm considering changing his name to Mate or Matey as that's what I tend to call him XD ) but he's had to be sedated after neutering to prevent him from running around like crazy so that's given me some spare time as he's not allowed to walk or play for several days the poor little guy is very upset about that of course.

Here's some photos of Max because he's so darn cute I can't help but share,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/Max1_zps8947f920.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Foxy_Gills/Maxface_zps273f1518.png

Samoyed preview at 70% of actual size, I'll work out final sizes at some stage making Shibas smaller and Samoyeds larger,

[Riverwind]

Awwww Max is so cute!! And I love the Samoyed ^.^

Sorry things haven't been going very well for you. *hugs* I'm here if you need to talk, just shoot me a PM.

[Mutt]

Thanks Riverwind always nice to know there's someone I can talk to about these things

Here is another preview, progress is slow still but still occurring I intend to kick my butt into gear and hopefully have a second Samoyed and a second Borzoi done this weekend, then work on getting the German Shepherds done as well as finishing The Untamed's otters... I'm such a procrastinator so many half finished linearts that need turning into bases 

[SkySong]

I'm loving the dogs so far!

[Bunraku]

Mutt, all of these dogs are amazing! I will definitely be collecting many

[Winged]

These are gorgeous Mutt!

[PonyMama]

I am thinking separate from untamed

however as a lover of catahoula's and wanting so badly to have them in a shop, I want to see a cleaned up version so badly, cause that doesn't look right

[Wildfilly94]

German Shephards and otters ?? *Dies* Day made!!

[Mutt]

I don't really want to go into detail about how the last few months have been for me, but I've never forgotten The Untamed or the dogs just couldn't bring myself to work at them for too long at a time, Otters are still coming, decided to redo one pose I had picked out because I don't like it so much anymore and have a better one in mind and I swear I'll get those done, putting a note on my PC to work on them tomorrow.

Here's a preview of what I've been doing since I got my computer back-
Samoyed WIP-


Borzoi WIP -


I'm thinking once the otters are done, and once the dog breeds in progress are done (finished Shiba Inus, WIP - Samoyed, Borzoi) I will make the GSD and Australian Shepherd and then launch the dogs, while adding new breeds as often as possible - I've had a whole lot of practice drawing dogs recently, a result of joining a DARPG community on DeviantART it's only through that that I started drawing again and really enjoying it ever since life events back in August.

Edit: oh I forgot to say don't worry about the Catas PM you can expect the final Catahoulas to look as they ought to, when I joined the DARPG group on DA I decided to specialize in Catahoulas I've been drawing them more often than any other breed.