toffeeca

[toffeeca]

Feel free to leave any feedback for transactions that we have done

toffeeca

[red_uni387]

traded PI renewal for stable horse + dvso reindeer on PI
very quick transaction and easy to work with no bumps in the road or any problems of the sort

traded stable horse + gidget for 8 gidgets
again very quick and easy, pleasant to negotiate with and seems to always be willing to work something out. stable trade was sent in right away even though I did not have all the gidgets at the time <3

[YourLoveOnly]

Traded a stable tag and 2 foaling paddocks for limited line gidgets.
Both times she send in the trade straight away even though not all gidgets have arrived yet.
Would like to do business with in the future.

[Garney]

Thu 4/01/10 3:18 AM
For four kennel breedings and four custom gidgets $30.00 USD

Wonderful! <3

[Garney]

Sat 4/10/10 10:53 PM
For two gidgets, two faequines, and two air~fish $20.00 USD

prompt payment!

[Garney]

Tue 4/13/10 8:20 PM
For two sets of dogs and breedings with each $30.00 USD

Prompt payment and great labeling =D

[Solistia]

06/14/10
For pre-made templated adoptable set for a privately disclosed amount

Prompt payment, easy to work with, and I'm quite proud to say very efficient at running the adoptable she purchased :3

[Silvanon]

It has come to my attention that toffeeca may be reporting details of our PMed conversation to others in a way that gives a false impression of what was said.  Here is what was said:

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Quote from: toffeeca on March 16, 2011, 17:25:16
Hi Silv,
Although I am still disappointed in this breeding season, thank you for working to make things better and giving refunds. You had said to message you about tradings for breedings. I traded Ryuu a studding from Jason and a kennel dog for a RB with her palomino tobiano mare and none of her genes passed. I don't know if there is anything you can do or not.
Thank you.

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I can offer you any of my kennel dogs.  Let me know which one you'd like and I'll put it up for bid.

====================

Here is the one and only conversation bit I don't have exact record of.  Toffeeca made a post in the Quinsta adoption thread at this point.  In her post as I remember it, she said that she felt this seasons Breeder's Choice were wrong because she didn't think they were random.  She felt that I was wrong for having allowed them, and she was very angry with me over it.  The only phrasing there I'm certain of is "very angry."  My general impression of the two paragraph post was that she was ranting at a whole new level of angry, that her post was upsetting to me, and that I thought it very likely to cause an explosion of angry feelings in the general population, much of which I thought would be directed at Toffeeca.

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Quote from: toffeeca on March 16, 2011, 18:32:06
I am not interested in any of your kennel dogs. I would like to know if you deleted the reply that I had written in the breeding thread though because I came home and it was gone and I did not do it.

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Yes, I did.  For you and me both.  Hey, you want to go continue making yourself a villain in front of everyone, go ahead and post it again, and I'll leave it this time.

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Quote from: toffeeca on March 16, 2011, 18:53:38
Excuse me? Wow, I never thought you would be like this. Ryuu sent me a message earlier telling me how calm and willing to work with people you are. I see she was really mistaken. I thought you were allowed to speak your mind on this site, but I see that only goes as far as not critizing you. And then you tell me not to be a part of your adoptable any longer? I was so sure that you would fix this problem, but so far you have been nothing but mean and snotty to me over your mistake. Honestly does it make you feel good to know that you are making people who have been incredibly faithful and defending of you cry? I have loved secundi and now I am seriously considering quiting, although that is probably what you would like to happen, get all the nay sayers to leave.

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from: Silvanon

Toffeeca, I'm not saying that just of myself.  I have been getting a lot of people contacting me expressing their upset with you over your behavior dealing with this breeding season.  I understand that in your current emotional state, you probably don't realize it, but the post of yours I deleted went way too far.  I don't want to see people even more upset with you because you posted something hastily without realizing how it makes you look to the community.

I have made a general invitation to those who paid me USD that if they are so upset over this breeding season that they wish for not just a refund of their USD (which I have already refunded) but interest as well to make up for the time the USD was in my hands, that I would give said interest.

It was if and only if someone wanted a refund with interest that I invited them not to continue adopting from me.  This was not a deliberate screwing over of anyone, I tried out a variation of the way I normally run the system which still fell well within the bounds of how I have set up the agency, and the community reaction to it has been poor, therefore I will not continue that variation.  I can't guarantee that I won't at some future time think that some other variation is a good idea and try it, only to find out that people didn't like it.  If someone is going to be that truly distressed by my trial and error, I think it would save both of us distress if they didn't adopt from me.

I admit that there was probably a better way to let you know that your post was making you look bad and that I deleted it for your own sake.  I'm very upset myself and it was the best I managed in the moment.  Other than that, I have responded by 1. issuing you a full refund of your USD 2. repeatedly appologizing and 3. offering you the best recompense I can come up with for the breed fee that you paid to someone else for the use of their mare.  I'm doing my my best to be as fair as possible to everyone involved.  I hope that eventually you will come to see my actions in a different light than you do now.

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from: Silvanon

I attempted to see if Ryuu would trade me the dog you'd included in your RB deal, but she was quite attached to it unfortunately, and since she did indeed let you use her mare in an RB this season I can't rightfully take from her the payment for that service.  So instead I've been authorized by Garney to offer you a custom Kennel dog.  Please let me know what you'd like.

As for the studding, Ryuu has agreed for her foal not to be considered offspring of your stud.  As far as your stud's pedigree is concerned, that breeding will not affect the number of offspring he has.  In light of Ryuu's interests as well as your own, I feel this is the most fair thing I can offer.


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from: toffeeca

What have I done so horribly wrong that everyone is upset over that other people have not done? I was not the first to bring up any of the issues, I did not ask for a refund, someone else approached me saying that I should ask for a refund and I never said I wanted a refund, and had I asked for one it would have only been a partial refund. I have felt since I got an appaloosa quin that I have been excluded from quite a few people and totally shunned because of it, and now everyone is complaining just about me? YLO and Keilin said the same things I said, before I said anything.

Also, I'm not interested in getting the dog back, its not any fault of Ryuu's and it doesn't involve Garney and I don't want one of your dogs. I didn't know what you meant when you had said that you wanted people to message you about breedings that didn't go how you wanted that you had traded for. I figured that I should message you and not regret later not having done it. The breeding failed, but there was always that chance, I don't want anything in exchange for the chance that I knew was there. Honestly all I have wanted all day was to wake up and have this all be a bad dream.

I would prefer that her foal was considered an offspring of my stud. He is the stud and if I ever want to look back and use the offspring for genetic information for my boy I would like the offspring there. Can you please include the offspring in my stud's pedigree?

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from: Silvanon

I haven't been going around polling people for their opinions on you, they've been independently offering them.  I also haven't been mining them for their exact reasons for feeling like they need to contact me about you, and they've been making general statements.  I had them typed out, but on second thought I don't think it's going to do either of us any good for you to hear the exact phrases.  If you really want them let me know and I'll give them to you.

So, for specifics, I can only offer you my own perspective.  Put succinctly, you've been holding a grudge whereas everyone else is letting me make it up to them the best I can.  Continuing to be angry with me because I can't meet unreasonable demands is, well, unreasonable.  Making this day be all a bad dream simply isn't something a human being is capable of doing.  I can and have promised not to do BC's again like I did this time, and that's really the best I can do there.   

It's ok that you asked for a refund on your breed fee.  However you seem to be under a misunderstanding as to why your breeding qualified for it, and what I was offering in return.  The offer I made was: "For everyone else who offered big bribes or some such for genes that popped up a lot in the BC, please PM me with with details and I will try to come up with a fair repayment for you."

I wasn't offering to "make right" breedings that "went wrong."  I was offering to do my best to refund the actual fees that people put out for the chance at genes that the random generator gave out a lot in the BC's this season.  You gave up a dog and a studding for your RB.  Hence I have offered you a dog and removal of the studding in return.  That offer is still in effect and I hope you will take it.

I believe what you've been hoping to get me to do is reroll all the BC's so that the results are different and no spectacular babies result from it.  Please allow me to share why I do not feel that is an option.  The results of the BC's this season were unusual in that they haven't happened before, however, they were by no means illegitimate.  I have stated many times previously that any gene available in the current population can be obtained through BC's.  I have not at any time before today made any statement that genes obtained would be limited to one.  I would literally be wronging the people who did Breeder's Choice this season to take away the foals they legitimately obtained, simply because some people feel they had too good of fortune with their breedings.

I understand why you are upset by the fact that so many others had good fortune this season.  It's not what you were expecting.  That is why I have taken the courtesy of attempting to repay you the expenses you incurred based on your expectations.  However, my courtesy to you does not extend to wronging others so that your expectations can be met.


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from: toffeeca

I still don't understand why anyone would be PMing you about me. You have no control over what I do and in my opinion it is just pety. If someone has a problem with me then I don't know why they would think that PMing you would make it better. I also think it is extremely unfair that I am the one who is being targeted for everything. Just because I was the person who had appaloosa and wasn't willing to give free breeds out to everyone who wanted them everyone is taking it out on me. Keilin suggested rerolling the breedings, not me. YLO brought up the fact that I spent USD, not me. Yet I am the one who has done all the wrong and I am the one that everyone is mad at and that no one wants to be around anymore. I feel totally totally alone on Secundi and that more than anything else today is what makes me want to leave. Why stay on a website where no one wants me?

I have no friends in real life. I have people I know, but no one who I can actually hang out with or talk to. Secundi was the one place that I felt like people actually liked me, and now that is totally totally ruined.

Honestly, I was over it. I was fine just talking to you, until all the white knighters came in saying that all the nay sayers needed to stop talking because you do so much. I'm not saying that you don't do a lot, because you do, but people telling me that I don't have the right to be upset (along with a fair few others) just started everything all over again.

Again, I did not know what you were going to do about the breedings, I just wanted to PM you so I didn't regret not doing it later. I do not want a kennel dog, I don't know what good that would do when I don't even feel like I should stay here, and I want the offspring on the pedigree.

I know I am not the only one who was hoping that the BC breedings would be rerolled. Keilin was the first to suggest it and I never would have thought of that on my own. I think that when every breeding results in rare genes, and most of them resulted in multiple rare genes, that it is illegitimate. Every stud that happened to come up was a double carrier for quite a few genes or was a single carrier and all the genes just happened to pass? I find that to be extremely unlikely. Are you willing to share how the offsite studs were determined because I just don't understand how it could possibly happen in every single breeding. And once again, I was not the first, and was certainly not the only one who had wanted the BC breedings to be rerolled. Of course if they had been I know it would have been put all on me, and thus even more of the community hate me, so I guess I just cant win.

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from: Silvanon

Well, like I said in the previous PM, I can't say what specifically caused other people to PM me about you as I didn't ask them for details.  However I should clarify they weren't asking me to take some sort of action against you, rather they were sympathizing with me over your behavior towards me, and that the PMing happened before the "white knighters" stuff.  Again I can only offer my own viewpoint on details, and that is that while you certainly weren't first, you were the loudest and the longest.  It's ok to be upset.  It's not ok to continue beating someone up over it after they've tried their best to make it up to you.

At the moment you are making unfounded generalizations such as "no one wants me."  You can tell this is not true in my own case by the fact that I have not banned your account.  That is very much in my power if I actually wanted you gone.  Instead, I am talking things through with you, trying to offer you recompense for expenses you incurred, and I even went so far as to attempt to protect you from further upsetting the community despite the fact that I knew you would be upset with me for it.

If you don't want your fees back on that RB then I'm at a loss as for what you do want?  If you can come up with a reasonable recompense that doesn't infringe on someone else's rights, I will do whatever is within my power to make it happen.

The offsite studs were determined exactly the way they always are, with one modification.  Each season I create one stud of each breed to be the Breeders Choice stud in the system.  All BC foals of that breed that season are rolled using his genes.  In the past I have said "I want this season's stud to be bay" or some other color, and put in enough genes to make certain of that color, and then let the others be randomly determined by the system.  This season, instead of picking what color the stud would be, I entered in enough genes to make certain of what the stud would not be, namely none of the colors not possible in the breed yet, and let the random generator pick the rest of the genes.  I don't see the genes the system picks, I only see the phenotypes.  I don't even know what genes my own Quinsta carry, beyond what breedings tell me.  Both the Gypsy and Shetland BC studs this season had a White phenotype, so I didn't know what they were carrying other than white until I'd already done the breedings.  It is and always has been my policy that I don't reroll breeding results, even if the foal is something I seriously don't want to have to color or that people are going to be upset about.  An illegitimate breeding, that is, one that breaks stated agency rules, is the only kind I would reroll.  The only example I can think of would be a breeding where proper permission was not given or payment was not made.

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from: toffeeca

I have to disagree with you about me being the loudest and the longest. The majority of my posts were trying to get more information about how it happened and just expressing my disappointment in the same terms that others had used. Other people had posted after you came back saying they were still disappointed with the outcomes, while I didn't, the only thing that I had posted after you came and said what you were going to do was in response to Pink and which you deleted right away. And even after that there were others that had posted saying that they were still unhappy with the huge influx of the rare genes. I never personally attacked you in any way. The only thing I said about you was that in my opinion if you had noticed that this had happened before posting it that it should have been changed and that I doubted that you would reroll the BC breedings. I never even started beating you up over it, and if you read it that way then you were reading more than was written.

Just because you have not banned my account doesn't mean that you want me. I honestly don't think you have a reason to ban my account, especially when banning does not happen on this site and I have done nothing except express my opinion. And if you did choose to ban my account, I highly doubt it would go over all that well. The community was upset with me long before this breeding season and I highly doubt you would have gotten any PMs about me specifically if I did not own any appaloosas.

There isn't anything you can do to make it better. I don't want anything from you because there is no solution that is fair for everyone and I know and understand that. I do not expect, and never did expect you to reroll the BC breedings, I said that in my very first response in the thread. I want to not be ostracized from this community, but that has been happening for the past couple months and there is nothing that you can do about it, so I guess there isn't anything either of us can do.

So everything is controlled by a computer program except the things that you manually set? So a Clyde stud would be set as "?? ?? cc rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt ?? ?? ?? ?? ??"? Where you would set it so that there could be no cream, roan, dun, grey, white, appaloosa, or tobiano, because those are currently not in the breed? Is there a set percent chance that any given gene will show on the stud?

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from: Silvanon
{{{
So everything is controlled by a computer program except the things that you manually set? So a Clyde stud would be set as "?? ?? cc rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt ?? ?? ?? ?? ??"? Where you would set it so that there could be no cream, roan, dun, grey, white, appaloosa, or tobiano, because those are currently not in the breed?}}}

That's correct.

{{{
Is there a set percent chance that any given gene will show on the stud?}}}

The first gene has a 50/50 chance of being dominant.  The second gene has a 75% chance of being recessive and a 25% chance of being dominant.

Since you keep bringing up your appaloosas, yes, I believe you are correct that some people in the community resent you hoarding the appaloosa genes all to yourself.  It's not that you have appaloosas, it's that you refuse to let anyone else have any.  When you are the only active user with a particular gene, and you refuse to let anyone else at all breed with your stock, it does in fact make you unpopular.  You can be rich and be popular, but you can't be greedy and be popular.  People liking or disliking you is not inevitable.  Your own choices have led to where you are at now.  Where you go from here will also depend on your choices.

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from: toffeeca

I had a male appaloosa all of one season and because I would not put him up for free breed everyone resented me. I was not hoarding him to myself, I had planned breedings with four other people who were getting appaloosas, but because everyone has a feeling that they are entitled to a free breed stud they are unhappy with me. I find it really rude for you to be saying that I am greedy. You have no clue what was going on through PMs. I don't know what you expect me to do. There is nothing that I can to do make other people like me again, and I really don't know if it is even worth it to stay around.

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from: Silvanon

Yeah, there really isn't a non-rude way to tell someone that yes, the community thinks they are greedy.  I didn't really want to address it, but you kept prodding me about it.  Sorry you ended up hearing something you didn't like.

Well, if you take no action, things are certain to stay as they are.  If you do take action, maybe things will change and maybe they won't.  It's up to you to decide if you're going to try or not.

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Quote from: Silvanon on Today at 01:57:39

You know, thinking about it, I actually think things will change for you even if you do nothing - after this season people won't have a reason to resent you because there will be appaloosa available elsewhere.  There will still be those few who hang onto it, but most will probably forget pretty quickly.  I hope for you that I'm right on this.

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Quote from: Silvanon on Today at 08:49:09

Since you probably have the same question, I'm going to copy and paste this to you:


[21:17] Ryuu: Oh dear, I just noticed the thread got edited and locked. Did I start something with my post? I'm sorry if I did. :\ Meant to calm the thread, not start a new round of arguments.
[21:18] Silvanon: Ah, let me see if I can properly explain  ^^
[21:21] Silvanon: You were right that my post appeared to be randomly inflammatory for no good reason.  I was less than calm at the time I posted because I was still reacting to a post someone else had made that went too far.  I had deleted that person's post to try both so I would hopefully not react to it and to protect them from looking bad to the community during an emotional time
[21:23] Silvanon: from my post I realized that my upset was coming through too much, and thinking about it felt it wasn't fair to the person who's post I'd removed to keep on a reply from me that addressed what they weren't being given the opportunity to say
[21:23] Silvanon: but if I deleted just my post, then other people's posts, replying to mine, seemed weird and inflamatory on their own, too
[21:23] Silvanon: and that wasn't fair to those people
[21:24] Silvanon: so in the end I deleted the whole conversation and locked the thread.  ^^

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