Gene Pool- genetic hints tracker thread

[Gene Pool]

Considering this is all about breeding, I hope this is the correct thread. It is for people who have recieved genetic code hints by donating eggs to science, and would like to share with others. If you manage to compile all hints ever given, you should be able to crack the code!

Every gene code should have the same amount of parts. The format should be
6^4^7
6(+-0)^6(+-0)^6(+-0)

it is possible I made errors here and there. If you notice one, please PM me!

[Silvanon]

Well, I'll start this thread off.  I don't have an offical hint, but it has been publically stated that:

"There are 38 pairs of genes, 21 dedicated to color, and 17 to unknown things."

It seems fairly evident from the gene parts note above that the ^ in the gene codes are not actual genes but rather dividers.   In the first row there are 6 + 4 + 7 =  17 digits, and in the second row there are 7 + 7 + 7 = 21 digits, so it seems likely that the top row is the "unknown things" and the bottom row are the color genes.

In the "unknown things" genes it appears that a gene pair can be represented by either a 0, 1 or 2.  In the bottom row each section has six gene pairs that can be represented by either a 0, 1 or 2, and a final gene pair that is represented by a +, -, or 0.

My initial thought was that the numbers represented the number of either dominant or recessive genes at a particular locus, saying, for example, that this fish has either 0, 1 or 2 recessive genes at this locus.  However that theory does not seem to be born out by the breedings.  I've compared the parent genes and baby genes for two breedings so far (mine with Lectral & PonyMama's fish and the one between sera and Ryuu's fish), and have the following data:

0x0 = 0, 1
0x1 = 0, 1
0x2 = 1
1x1 = 0, 1, 2
1x2 = 0, 1, 2
2x2 =    1, 2

-x-= -, 0
-x+=
-x0= -
+x+=
+x0= 0, +
0x0= 0

Key:  Parent1 x Parent2 = baby results

If the digit represented the number of a dominant or recesive gene, then 2 x 2 should always result in a 2 baby at that locus, but the babies I've looked at so far with 2 x 2 parents have had both 1's and 2's at that locus.

[Gene Pool]

ack! I put a 1 on a 0X0 slot? and 2X2 should be a 2. for the 0,+,-, 0 is the middle portion. ifa + crosses with a -, the result could be any of the 3.
That would be me messing up! Seems I may need to go fix a couple. Im using a new wireless keyboard that likes to skip or repeat buttons I press. It is proving quite a hassle.

Edited eggs (to correct my mistakes!):
104, a 1 turned to a 2
105, a 1 turned to a 2
103, a 2 turned to a 1
101, a 2 became a 1, and a 1 became a 2
102, a 2 turned to a 1
109, a 1 turned to a 2
107, a 0 turned to a 1, and a 1 turned to a 2
108, a 0 turned to a 1, and a 1 turned to a 2

Based on the number of mistakes, I think I have to blame my own lack of sleep last night instead of the keyboard.

[Kadana Sorano]

Silv.. here are the eye color genes location, if it helps..

Here is your hint from donating your egg to science:
In the following string, the BOLD area shows where eye color genes are marked-
000011^1100^0011110
0111110^011112-^1202020

[Silvanon]

Ah, thanks Gene Pool!  Sorry to hear about all the hassle with your new keyboard, that sounds frustrating.  But, yay!  My theory may not have been that far off! 

Ooo, thanks Kadana!  Yes, looks like the bottom row is definitely color, then.  Given what you've got there, I'd hazzard a guess that the other two sections of the bottom row refer to body color and fin color.

[Conroy]

Here is your hint from donating your egg to science:
The +, -, or 0 at the end of a section tells if the color for that section is brighter, darker, or normal.

[Gene Pool]

Silvanon, you said you found a code where a pair of - resulted in a 0. I cant find which one that is. I think I fixed everything else I messed up on last night. I need to sleep more before doing these!

[red_uni387]

nope, 103 still only has 5 numbers in the first slot instead of 6, which is what I PMed you about XD

[Silvanon]

Ah, yes, eggs 105 and 106, owned by PonyMama and myself respectively.  In the color line, the first intensity gene, the parents (Lectral's Sushi x PonyMama's 009) both have -'s but the babies have 0's.   Lectral's egg, #104, didn't have enough digits in that section so I don't know if hers would have had a similar problem.

Speaking of intensity gene, thanks Conroy for posting your hint!  Veerrrry interesting!

[Rosewood]

Genetic hint from your donated egg:
With fin colors, blues are dominant over oranges, but recessive under greens.

[Silvanon]

Thanks Rosewood!  Ooo, now that is an interesting bit of info.  So, we know three different colors that are coded for in fins - green, blue and orange, in order of dominance.  

So, we know that the very last section of seven genes refers to eye color:  1202020
and we know that the very last gene of that section (as well as the other color sections) refers to color intensity, leaving 6 unknown genes:  120202

I'm feeling fairly confident that the other two color sections are indeed body and fin, which means they too have 6 genes that we don't know for sure yet what they do.

Either there's three other colors that are coded for in fins, or else green, blue and orange each get two genes determining their value.

The fact that the hint specifies that's the order of dominance for fins seems to suggest the order of dominance might be different for the other body sections.  Also, while it seems likely, we don't know if the same three colors are coded for in the eyes and body.

[Gene Pool]

whistles innocently and doesn't say anything

Your script appears to be working perfect, thank you so much! Still room for me to mess up, but not as much now!

[Conroy]

Here's your hint for donating an egg to science:
In the following code, the bolded segment determines fin color pattern mutations-

020011^0011^0000111
1000120^111120-^0021110

[Kadana Sorano]

Proxy for Riverwind Posting her Hint..

Here's your hint for donating an egg to science:
In eye colors, the reds are dominant over blues, but recessive to greys.

[Silvanon]

Thanks for posting your hints guys!

Ok, so we know:

(6 unknown)^(4 Fin Color Patterns)^(7 unknown)
(6 unknown colors)(color intensity)^(6 unknown colors)(color intensity)^(6 Eye Colors)(color intensity)

We know that fin colors include green, blue and orange in order of dominance.
We know that eye colors include grey, red, and blue in order of dominance.

We also know from comments in the first thread by Gene Pool that yellow and black are not genes, and that orange is.

[Silvanon]

Sorry for the double post, but I'm going to put my speculations rather than definite known fact in this post.  (And by the by, I don't know anything beyond what's in this post.  I coded the breeding script with only what's here, so don't give any special weight to my theories over someone else's.)

I was looking around the gallery and saw Garney's fish, who has blue eyes:



Here's the gene code for her fish:

011001^0111^0110010
0010020^001102-^0110120

Since blue is recessive we know that the fish can't have a full set of genes for either grey or red.  It seems likely that blue would require a full set of genes (2 of them) to show blue.  Given all that information, I've highlighted the gene I believe is for Blue eye color.  

Ivyspring's fish also has blue eyes and also has a 2 in the same slot:  http://genepool.freehostia.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=281


My fish Jade has a 2 in that spot, but he has green eyes.



Here's his code:
011001^0010^0110010
200102-^012022+^0221020

Jade has 2's in 2 other eye color slots, which I've highlighted.  I hypothesize that one of those is the green gene, and that green is dominante over blue, and is also dominant over at least one other color.

This fish, #57 in the premades, has greenish eyes as well:



His code is this:
011101^0111^1100101
110201-^2201000^021120+

He only has a 2 in one of the two hypothesized green slots, therefore I hypothesize that the bolded gene above is the Green Eye gene.  

I furthermore hypothesize that the genes are placed in order of dominance, although I need to look around further to be sure.  But, right now I need to run!

[red_uni387]

Lectral's fish also has a 2 in that spot, with a code of 0202020 for just the eye not sure it helps, but I'm trying to do something helpful XD



edit: and this fishy has light blue eyes, with a -, so I think - is for brighter colors
though it may be cause by the genetic code for the eyes: 011012-


edit again: this fishy too! (just going around looking for blue eyes to compare genetic codes ^^)
0110020


another
0100120

[red_uni387]

sorry for the double post, but I think this qualifies as inportant enough to highlight the thread again xD

the clue says red over green, and this fish has red eyes with a 2 in teh spot right before the supposed green gene, so I think the bolded number is for red
0001220


the other red eyed fish I see also has a 2 in teh same spot
001022-


edit: the 2nd one also has a bright eye color, supporting that - is for a brighter color! I feel so smart xD

edit again: and this fish has dark blue eyes, and a + at the end of the code!
001002+


now this fish has a 2 in the first spot for the eye, so might this imply that brown is the dominant color for the eye?
2112010

[Silvanon]

Good stuff red_uni!  I poked around a bit more earlier today, and came up with the following hypothesis for eye genes:

EyeColor-Brown/Orange
EyeColor-Green
C17
EyeColor-Grey
EyeColor-Red
EyeColor-Blue
EyeColorIntensity


The multiple colors listed are because sometimes the intensity gene modified the color into a shade I'd call by a different name (or at least I think that's what's going on).

-- that C17 slot I haven't found any good proof yet of what color it might be.  If anyone runs into a fish who has a 2 in that slot and no other 2's through the eye genes, be sure to point it out!

[red_uni387]

yay I'm helpful! *bounces*

plus...found a fishie with the 2 in the 3rd slot!
012210-


but this one has yellow eyes, and the 2 is in the 2nd slot
122102-


very interesting....

[Gene Pool]

Look close, the yellows are different they are both - so.. lighter versions of ?

[red_uni387]

GREEN~

dang means I gotta look more XD will do so after some HW

[Solistia]

Sharing my breeding hint =D

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
When there is no "2" in a color string, the most dominant "1" will determine the visable coloration.

[Silvanon]

Thanks Solista!  That is a good hint, and one I was wondering about!  Plus, it confirms that a 2 really does represent that gene being present and able to express if nothing else is dominant over it.  I would imagine that means that if a color line is straight 0's then the most domiant color would show.

Thanks for your snooping red_uni!  Given your examples, and what Gene Pool said, I think we can realize the following:  the intensity modification genes can cause two different genes to express in nearly identical fashion.  That's important to know.

Looking at the two examples, the first yellow looks more orangey to me than the second one, which has a greenish tint.  So, I'm revising my eye gene theory to the following:

EyeColor-Brown (can lighten to browny-orange)
EyeColor-Green (can lighten to greenish-yellow)
EyeColor-Orange (can lighten to orangey-yellow)
EyeColor-Grey (can lighten to near-white or darken to near-black)
EyeColor-Red (can lighten to pink)
EyeColor-Blue (can lighten to cyan)
EyeColorIntensity

[PonyMama]

Sil I sent you a fishy to look at, I am trying to follow this thread so I am not too sure if the fish will help you figure or not, this is all very confusing to me

[Silvanon]

Thank you PonyMama!  That fish was very helpful!

For everyone else to see, here's the fish, with nice orange eyes:



And gene code:
011001^1110^0011110
0112200^211201+^0121000

Since that bolded 2 is the only one in the line, that means whatever it is, that's the fish's eye color.  Since the intensity gene at the end is a 0, which I believe is for "no intensity change" the eye color should show true, and, it's orange!  I'm now feeling quite confident about my eye color gene theory. 

[PonyMama]

I am glad, I wasn't overly sure the eye was determined by the last set of nubmer, as I said confused, but I was hoping that I was correct.

[Solistia]

A new hint! ^o^

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
On fins, oranges are dominant over both browns and greys.

[red_uni387]

and my hint~

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
Some mutations in this section of code only have a visable representation on male fish-
010110^0110^1100101
200011-^100122+^122102-

[Silvanon]

Ok, so, I've been looking around lots, and have the following theory on the color genes (following along the bottom row of genes):

FinColor-Green
FinColor-Blue
FinColor-Orange
FinColor-Brown
FinColor-Purple
FinColor-Grey
FinColorIntensity
^
BodyColor-Brown
BodyColor-Orange
BodyColor-Green
BodyColor-Purple
BodyColor-Grey
BodyColor-Red
BodyColorIntensity
^
EyeColor-Brown
EyeColor-Green
EyeColor-Orange
EyeColor-Grey
EyeColor-Red
EyeColor-Blue
EyeColorIntensity


I'm not 100% confident this is correct, yet, especially since there seems to be a fish or two that contradict it.  Not sure yet if those are errors, or if my code's actually wrong.  We'll see.  Anyways, there it is, anyone who finds evidence, especially against these theorized genes, please post it!

Oo, I asked about one of the contradictory fish, and it was a mistake.  I got a helping hint!

Helping me hint: If any color string comes out as all 0's (before the intesity gene) the fish will be an albino, regardless of the other2 color strings.

... I wants an all 0's fishie now.  *lol*

Oh, and thanks Solistia and red_uni for posting your hints!  Solista's does nicely confirm part of my cracking, and red_uni's is verrra interesting.  We'll have to wait for mutations to start appearing to really get cracking on that, but, still, very good info that would have been difficult to figure out on our own.

[Neocridders]

I would love to voice a question that may or may not be answered, or be completely obvious to everyone else just not me.

In real life, every once in a while new traits come up as mutations.
I am wondering aloud if it is possible that a random fish every once in a while will come out contradicting what should happen, because of a genetic mutation?

I do understand that there are codes for mutations, but I am meaning mutations in my case as a sort of 'oopsie' in the genetics?

[Solistia]

Oh I forgot to post the hint I got for helping find an error XD

Oh my. Sushi's code is all twisted. How did I get one so messed up?
For helping me find that, here is a hint:
current code in color section reads "0012200^022012-^0202020", that is supposed to be a pale orange body code! Must go fix that!

ah, I see what I did. I somehow reversed 2 code sections. Fixed now!

[Silvanon]

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
0, 1, and 2 stand for how many genes were passed on from the parents to this creature. A 0 means neither parent passed on this gene. A 1 means 1 parent did. A 2 means both parents passed this gene to this creature, and it will express if it is dominant over other similar genes with a 2. In contrast with many real-life genetics, individual locals will never share 2 colors or expressions. Each local has its own expression, shared only with a "no-show" expression.

The reason for this, is the "mutations". In reality, a horse has no option for wings or a horn. In the world of adoptables, they can. In like mind, our fish may do things no "real" fish could do. Our scientists came up with a code to reflect this. They saw that it would be simpler to use the same type of code for all strings, regardless if the string had a mutation or not.

Here's the hint I got from my donated eggie!   Sounds like there may be some really fun things in store with the mutations.  ^__^

[quyllur]

This is my CYO Akia


Here is her gene code:

101100^0111^1001001
021201-^110220+^011022-

I noticed that her eye is purple and she has 2s in both the red and blue spots with a minus to make it lighter.  Does that mean that if you have two genes that are 2s they can combine?

[Silvanon]

Personally I think the answer is "sometimes, but technically not really".  Your fish also has two 2's in the other two strings, but I wouldn't say the tail has any brown or that the body has any grey.  I think sometimes the Gene Pool will take other 2's into consideration when deciding the actual shade, as sort of an "artist's discretion" thing, but that it's probably not part of the official genetics.

For evidence, YLO's Lookky has obviously purple eyes, but only one two in the eye string:



011110^1101^0110101
021201+^0212011-^011002+


Good theory, though!  One I've seriouly considered too, and in the end it may turn out to be correct after all.

[Solistia]

Interesting bit of news =D

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
In body colors, red is the most recessive color.

[red_uni387]

got 2 hints, one not needed, but the other is very interesting

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
In eye colors, blue is the most recessive color.

Hint 2 for 2nd egg:
All genes are coded, no new mutations will show up later.

[Goddesss]

Hope this helps you guys.

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
In body colors, green will dominate red, but recess to brown.

Hint 2 for 2nd egg:
In fin colors, grey is the most recessive color.

[Gene Pool]

I am basing my hints partially on questions I have seen people ask. However, who gets the answering hint is random.

I am partially holding off mutation hints, because I am going to let the first person to breed an expression of each mutation name it. Once the names are established, hinting for those will come along.

[Solistia]

Oohh, an awesome color hint 8D

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
In color genes, no 2 genes will ever blend to determine color. In cases of similar colors, or a color "between" 2 others, artist judgement (with the help of my moniter's interpretation) will determine which color it is.

For example, in the case of purple- if the purple is on the side of fuschia, the gene will be red. If the purple is on the side of indigo, the gene will be blue.

Another example is yellow. On one hand, it can be a paled green. On the other hand, it can be a paled orange. Subtle undertones are used to determine which gene is expressed.

[Silvanon]

Thanks for posting your hints everyone!  And, with that last one, I'm going to slightly revise my gene theory, to switch out the word "purple" for "red" in the fins and body:

FinColor-Green
FinColor-Blue
FinColor-Orange
FinColor-Brown
FinColor-Red
FinColor-Grey
FinColorIntensity
^
BodyColor-Brown
BodyColor-Orange
BodyColor-Green
BodyColor-Blue
BodyColor-Grey
BodyColor-Red
BodyColorIntensity
^
EyeColor-Brown
EyeColor-Green
EyeColor-Orange
EyeColor-Grey
EyeColor-Red
EyeColor-Blue
EyeColorIntensity

[red_uni387]

then body color has two reds, so the first should be blue

[YourLoveOnly]

So that would mean blue + red = purple etc?

[red_uni387]

nope, it's either a darker blue, it'll be the blue gene and the + internsity sign
and if it's a redd-ish purple, it'll be red color with + sign (at least that's what I'm understanding this to be)

[Gene Pool]

Yes. That is correct. Intensity determines the shades of the base genes, not the neighboring genes.

[Silvanon]

Oops, thanks red!  *edits*

[SplitX]

Helpful? o_o

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
In fin colors, red will dominate grey, but recess to brown.

[quyllur]

Here is my hint:

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
Females only will express the 2 most recessive fin shape mutations.

[red_uni387]

wow. did we actually get all the color genes? o.o

[Silvanon]

Given the hints that have been posted about the mutations string, I've currently got the following:

O1
O2
O3
O4
O5
O6
^
FinPattern1
FinPattern2
FinPattern3
FinPattern4
^
?FinShape1-MaleOnly
?FinShape2-MaleOnly
?FinShape3-MaleOnly
?FinShape4-MaleOnly
?FinShape5-MaleOnly
?FinShape6
?FinShape7


Not 100% sure on the last section being the fin shape, but given these two hints, I think it likely:

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
Some mutations in this section of code only have a visable representation on male fish-
010110^0110^1100101
200011-^100122+^122102-

Here is your hint for donating an egg to science:
Females only will express the 2 most recessive fin shape mutations.

I think it likely that the 2 fin shape genes that females can show will be female-only mutations, but we'll have to get more info to be sure.